The next phase (consisting of two new buildings) will actually be rental housing, and is being built by a different developer. There’s definitely a stronger market for downtown rentals than condos.
"Meet the market: the condos outside city hall still have units for sale. Why? In part, because they are expensive. That’s not the kind of housing the city needs.."
And they're building the next phase of that development next to the Y daycare, are they not? I was going for a lunchtime walk over to LTMP with a coworker/friend and she asked what was being built there. I'm pretty sure it is the next phase of the same, little wanted condos.
Another example of an idea where the developer didn't read the room: those four townhomes next to the Yalenka Hall just up the hill a bit, on Queensway and Patricia. I think they're called "the Brownstones". Around $650K for an end unit when they first went up for sale in 2021 - I checked them out online when they went up for sale and after looking at the interior photos and location, I thought "well, good luck with those prices". Just looking at the sales listings this morning, three are still for sale. BC Assessment indicates only one has sold since they were built, so three units sitting there unsold for almost four years. I think they were or are renting them out now, to keep some revenue flowing and so they don't so unappealingly empty and dark.
Thanks to Mandi for sharing the link to the planning presentation - I will go through it fully later. :) Andrew's summary was all I could do on a single mug of coffee this morning. Darrin Rigo really sparked my interest in PG and its planning, and now you're just building on it. And I don't even live in city limits!
Morning! You are v welcome - I work at UNBC and I've noticed a gap where uni events aren't promoted to the public as much as I'd like to see (though I do fully admit that most of my engagement with PG news and the like comes from this newsletter, as FB has gotten increasingly +ahem+ less user friendly and I've stopped checking it), which I fear is hindering our goal of connecting with our communities and breaking down the perceived barriers between the ivory tower and the general public. Various groups on campus host some amazing and locally relevant presentations, such as Rylan's and another recent one about forest management titled "Returning to burning in Northwest BC" (https://video.unbc.ca/media/Returning+to+Burning+in+Northwest+British+Columbia+-+Dr.+Kira+Hoffman/0_hp45o5ct/23996) and both of these were from the Natural Resources & Environmental Studies Institute series which has another 264 recordings available to everyone here: https://video.unbc.ca/channel/NRESI/, and other v interesting recordings including the Community Development Institute stuff is available as well at https://video.unbc.ca/channels - all that under-caffeinated rambling to say that I want to highlight these events by sending them to Andrew and inviting folks from the community to attend and (even better) engage.
Anyhoops, good morning fellow newsletter subscribers, happy Friday, I hope each of you gets a nice little treat today :)
Downtowns are in retreat across the board, and those that historically struggle are having the most challenges.
People have a lot of choice when it comes to where they live and work, and are particularly price sensitive. In a small city like PG, where accessibility and commuting is relatively easy, your market for choice is wide.
When businesses are in retreat because of crime, social disorder and general decline in public safety (real, or perceived) what is the incentive to invest into an already struggling area?
If you had 500k to buy a home in PG, would you really buy downtown?
No amount of urban planning is going to solve this unless the fundamentals change and demand for downtown living increases substantially. You can re-zone all you want, subsidize development all you want, OCP the crap out the downtown...but if there isn't a CRITICAL MASS OF DEMAND for that kind of living...you will see marginal returns, at best. People need to shed their Richard Florida dreams for downtown living.
I'm a former urban planner is 30 years in that field....and believe me, planners (and the damn arm chair variety too....who are absolutely rampant in PG) wear some of the most rose-coloured glasses regarding how the large majority of people ACTUALLY want to live. Most people like their cars, like their big house, want a place to put their RV's, boats etc...maybe have a shop. They like their suburban urban living and the market demand for that is so unbelievably self-evident. Stop chasing the margins and ask...why is that? Why is this sort of living super popular? Why do they not want to live in the downtown? I can tell you, it's not because the active transportation is lacking.
I would argue this argument would have had more weight before but the landscape is changing. My parents were able to buy large house in CH in the 90s in the low 200s. Now... people are looking at $800k+ for anything comparable. With cost the cost of living crunch, while many people would prefer the large house on a large lot, it's a lot less realistic.
Where I feel the city fails is building multi-family dwellings in the suburbs along side all these detached homes (Creekside, end of 22nd Ave come to mind). They don't gain any greater conveniences. They're still just as car dependent as everyone else. What makes higher density living attractive to some are the conveniences which should come with that. Can you walk to cafe? a grocery store? a restaurant/pub?
PG is offering higher density living with no upside. Where's the mixed use development? Why does everything have to be so segregated?
The next phase (consisting of two new buildings) will actually be rental housing, and is being built by a different developer. There’s definitely a stronger market for downtown rentals than condos.
The Mr PG drawing added a much needed smile to my day. Thank you!
"Meet the market: the condos outside city hall still have units for sale. Why? In part, because they are expensive. That’s not the kind of housing the city needs.."
And they're building the next phase of that development next to the Y daycare, are they not? I was going for a lunchtime walk over to LTMP with a coworker/friend and she asked what was being built there. I'm pretty sure it is the next phase of the same, little wanted condos.
Another example of an idea where the developer didn't read the room: those four townhomes next to the Yalenka Hall just up the hill a bit, on Queensway and Patricia. I think they're called "the Brownstones". Around $650K for an end unit when they first went up for sale in 2021 - I checked them out online when they went up for sale and after looking at the interior photos and location, I thought "well, good luck with those prices". Just looking at the sales listings this morning, three are still for sale. BC Assessment indicates only one has sold since they were built, so three units sitting there unsold for almost four years. I think they were or are renting them out now, to keep some revenue flowing and so they don't so unappealingly empty and dark.
Thanks to Mandi for sharing the link to the planning presentation - I will go through it fully later. :) Andrew's summary was all I could do on a single mug of coffee this morning. Darrin Rigo really sparked my interest in PG and its planning, and now you're just building on it. And I don't even live in city limits!
Morning! You are v welcome - I work at UNBC and I've noticed a gap where uni events aren't promoted to the public as much as I'd like to see (though I do fully admit that most of my engagement with PG news and the like comes from this newsletter, as FB has gotten increasingly +ahem+ less user friendly and I've stopped checking it), which I fear is hindering our goal of connecting with our communities and breaking down the perceived barriers between the ivory tower and the general public. Various groups on campus host some amazing and locally relevant presentations, such as Rylan's and another recent one about forest management titled "Returning to burning in Northwest BC" (https://video.unbc.ca/media/Returning+to+Burning+in+Northwest+British+Columbia+-+Dr.+Kira+Hoffman/0_hp45o5ct/23996) and both of these were from the Natural Resources & Environmental Studies Institute series which has another 264 recordings available to everyone here: https://video.unbc.ca/channel/NRESI/, and other v interesting recordings including the Community Development Institute stuff is available as well at https://video.unbc.ca/channels - all that under-caffeinated rambling to say that I want to highlight these events by sending them to Andrew and inviting folks from the community to attend and (even better) engage.
Anyhoops, good morning fellow newsletter subscribers, happy Friday, I hope each of you gets a nice little treat today :)
This is actually a really good time to give the city feedback on the Official Community Plan.
There is an survey currently open. https://getinvolved.princegeorge.ca/ocp-review
People should really be giving their feedback here if they want to see a new direction
Look, it's not that difficult to understand this.
Downtowns are in retreat across the board, and those that historically struggle are having the most challenges.
People have a lot of choice when it comes to where they live and work, and are particularly price sensitive. In a small city like PG, where accessibility and commuting is relatively easy, your market for choice is wide.
When businesses are in retreat because of crime, social disorder and general decline in public safety (real, or perceived) what is the incentive to invest into an already struggling area?
If you had 500k to buy a home in PG, would you really buy downtown?
No amount of urban planning is going to solve this unless the fundamentals change and demand for downtown living increases substantially. You can re-zone all you want, subsidize development all you want, OCP the crap out the downtown...but if there isn't a CRITICAL MASS OF DEMAND for that kind of living...you will see marginal returns, at best. People need to shed their Richard Florida dreams for downtown living.
I'm a former urban planner is 30 years in that field....and believe me, planners (and the damn arm chair variety too....who are absolutely rampant in PG) wear some of the most rose-coloured glasses regarding how the large majority of people ACTUALLY want to live. Most people like their cars, like their big house, want a place to put their RV's, boats etc...maybe have a shop. They like their suburban urban living and the market demand for that is so unbelievably self-evident. Stop chasing the margins and ask...why is that? Why is this sort of living super popular? Why do they not want to live in the downtown? I can tell you, it's not because the active transportation is lacking.
I would argue this argument would have had more weight before but the landscape is changing. My parents were able to buy large house in CH in the 90s in the low 200s. Now... people are looking at $800k+ for anything comparable. With cost the cost of living crunch, while many people would prefer the large house on a large lot, it's a lot less realistic.
Where I feel the city fails is building multi-family dwellings in the suburbs along side all these detached homes (Creekside, end of 22nd Ave come to mind). They don't gain any greater conveniences. They're still just as car dependent as everyone else. What makes higher density living attractive to some are the conveniences which should come with that. Can you walk to cafe? a grocery store? a restaurant/pub?
PG is offering higher density living with no upside. Where's the mixed use development? Why does everything have to be so segregated?