My husband has a hypothesis that the LPO and RCMP crackdown on shoplifting during the first hours of the store being open is a deliberate strategy by RCMP (possibly in cahoots with corporate Jimmy Pattison?) to send a message to those in the downtown and/or who are desperate. Like a shot off the bow.
I can't remember if I said in another post of yours, Andrew, that I witnessed a takedown of an alleged female shoplifter at the Pine Centre Save-On Foods at the beginning of this year.... AFTER I bought her groceries for her (around $60 worth). The LPOs said she had stolen items in another bag. What were those items? A can of iced tea and a box of crackers. What is that, less than $10?
The background: I had stepped in to buy her groceries at the check-out a few minutes earlier after she was trying to do so with her card (the staff tried to discourage me but I pointed out that it was my choice), I introduced myself, asked for her name and said I would cover her groceries. She was so grateful, thanked me many times, she cried and said she was having a terrible day, and I just wanted to help out someone who was clearly unhoused and needed someone to see her and her need. When she left the store, that was when the LPOs chased her down and held her under "citizen's arrest" until RCMP arrived. I was furious since the purchased groceries were damaged in the kerfuffle and I have to wonder if she remembered that she had those two items in her bag, given her emotional state. I told her that I would stay until RCMP showed up to provide a statement. The LPOs told me that I could go and I just said, "no thank you. I will stay until RCMP arrive so I can provide my version of events." One of the two LPOs looked pretty nervous that I was sticking around.
Another gentleman who saw everything also did the same as I did: stayed to provide a statement to RCMP. He even offered and got a bottle of water for her. A regional district director, interestingly enough, as I went and spoke to him while waiting. At one point, this woman tried to get her purse that was on the ground and the two LPOs grabbed her, at which point she kind of freaked out and tried to kick one of the LPOs and they ended up in a struggle and throwing her to the ground. Me and the other fellow yelled "woah, woah, woah, that's a bit much, guys!" while the woman was on the ground, then getting hauled up and against the wall, sobbing and saying things like "I'm so tired of men abusing me." It was a trauma reaction if I have ever seen one (as someone who goes regularly to clinical counselling for childhood trauma).
Long story short: RCMP came. I gave my statement as did the RD director - we both felt that the LPOs crossed a line themselves given how they "manhandled" this woman. RCMP were pretty good, but could not (or would not) answer my question about what LPOs are actually allowed to do, and not do, under the law when it comes to holding someone suspected of shoplifting. He did say that between myself and the other fellow, and any video, that they would look into whether the LPOs were also in the wrong in this situation. Based on how long they held her in the vehicle (my husband arrived and hauled me off to calm down and talk it out at a nearby cafe, and RCMP were still there with her at least an hour later when I went to get my car), I think our presence and statements provided some aid to this woman in what would have otherwise been a one-sided story. My husband suspects that she was probably released due to our statements.
Yes, theft is a crime. So too the crimes likely happened to this woman, perhaps as a child, teen and/or and adult. And I bet that abuse has never been reported because she is indigenous and vulnerable and without stable supports. Would she be taken seriously in our system? I have my doubts. While we were waiting for the RCMP, there were a few other shoppers who literally stopped and shamed the woman to her face, without seeing anything or knowing anything about the situation. I was floored by that. She tried to defend herself and pointed at me and said "she bought my groceries", and one man looked at me and said "did you buy her groceries?" and I said, "I sure did. Here's the receipt." He looked doubtful, said a few more words to the woman and continued on. Another woman stopped and yelled "for shame! Stealing!!" pointing at her and wagging her finger. It is just an indication that people, and much of society, are unable or unwilling to think about how a human gets to this place.
And that was my rambling story. I haven't shopped at Pine Centre Save-On since that event and definitely sticking to that after reading about the two young girls taken down at the same store in May. Shoplifting and theft are just a symptom of long-term complex issues in society, ones where we cannot seem to get it together to start tackling. I hope sharing my story provides something for people to think about and perhaps encourage them to look beyond the shell of a situation to the deeper problems. And make a deliberate decision to act.
Fires: HY to Trudy Klassen. And HY to you too, Andrew, and your colleagues, for some reporting on the fires. It does seem odd when you highlight it. There were concerns when the encampment at the RD was levelled, that people didn't feel safe going to Moccasin Flats because of the higher level of crime and violence. The tiny homes weren't built before that. Could the fires be playing out what people had feared? If individuals are being targetted, it's unlikely they'll report it to police.
Shoplifting and handcuffs: Back in the day (and yes, this is after the Young Offenders Act kicked in), kids were still as likely to be handcuffed as adults if they were caught breaking the law. If you break the law, there should be consequences. Yes, I also agree that those consequences should account for the why, in appropriate circumstances. But I think we get into very dangerous territory if we, say, let all 12 year olds get a pass. 12 today is a lot different than 12 was 40 years ago. (OMG I'm old.)
Which leads me to: That "oh" graffiti makes me sad. Do it on a canvas. Paint on a mural. Put some wood up as a temporary wall. Today graffiti on city property, tomorrow Stonehenge. :(
Huge awesome news about the urban reserve land!! I think it's fabulous that the request was made in the first place, and that the city is on side.
A p.s. about the consequences and the handcuffs: I've been schooled by my (young adult) child and not above admitting when my first impressions go too far. Context is key. She pointed out that for a child who isn't evading or being aggressive or in any way resisting, handcuffs are way out of line. And yeah, she's right.
RE: Buy-Low Foods and shoplifting.
My husband has a hypothesis that the LPO and RCMP crackdown on shoplifting during the first hours of the store being open is a deliberate strategy by RCMP (possibly in cahoots with corporate Jimmy Pattison?) to send a message to those in the downtown and/or who are desperate. Like a shot off the bow.
I can't remember if I said in another post of yours, Andrew, that I witnessed a takedown of an alleged female shoplifter at the Pine Centre Save-On Foods at the beginning of this year.... AFTER I bought her groceries for her (around $60 worth). The LPOs said she had stolen items in another bag. What were those items? A can of iced tea and a box of crackers. What is that, less than $10?
The background: I had stepped in to buy her groceries at the check-out a few minutes earlier after she was trying to do so with her card (the staff tried to discourage me but I pointed out that it was my choice), I introduced myself, asked for her name and said I would cover her groceries. She was so grateful, thanked me many times, she cried and said she was having a terrible day, and I just wanted to help out someone who was clearly unhoused and needed someone to see her and her need. When she left the store, that was when the LPOs chased her down and held her under "citizen's arrest" until RCMP arrived. I was furious since the purchased groceries were damaged in the kerfuffle and I have to wonder if she remembered that she had those two items in her bag, given her emotional state. I told her that I would stay until RCMP showed up to provide a statement. The LPOs told me that I could go and I just said, "no thank you. I will stay until RCMP arrive so I can provide my version of events." One of the two LPOs looked pretty nervous that I was sticking around.
Another gentleman who saw everything also did the same as I did: stayed to provide a statement to RCMP. He even offered and got a bottle of water for her. A regional district director, interestingly enough, as I went and spoke to him while waiting. At one point, this woman tried to get her purse that was on the ground and the two LPOs grabbed her, at which point she kind of freaked out and tried to kick one of the LPOs and they ended up in a struggle and throwing her to the ground. Me and the other fellow yelled "woah, woah, woah, that's a bit much, guys!" while the woman was on the ground, then getting hauled up and against the wall, sobbing and saying things like "I'm so tired of men abusing me." It was a trauma reaction if I have ever seen one (as someone who goes regularly to clinical counselling for childhood trauma).
Long story short: RCMP came. I gave my statement as did the RD director - we both felt that the LPOs crossed a line themselves given how they "manhandled" this woman. RCMP were pretty good, but could not (or would not) answer my question about what LPOs are actually allowed to do, and not do, under the law when it comes to holding someone suspected of shoplifting. He did say that between myself and the other fellow, and any video, that they would look into whether the LPOs were also in the wrong in this situation. Based on how long they held her in the vehicle (my husband arrived and hauled me off to calm down and talk it out at a nearby cafe, and RCMP were still there with her at least an hour later when I went to get my car), I think our presence and statements provided some aid to this woman in what would have otherwise been a one-sided story. My husband suspects that she was probably released due to our statements.
Yes, theft is a crime. So too the crimes likely happened to this woman, perhaps as a child, teen and/or and adult. And I bet that abuse has never been reported because she is indigenous and vulnerable and without stable supports. Would she be taken seriously in our system? I have my doubts. While we were waiting for the RCMP, there were a few other shoppers who literally stopped and shamed the woman to her face, without seeing anything or knowing anything about the situation. I was floored by that. She tried to defend herself and pointed at me and said "she bought my groceries", and one man looked at me and said "did you buy her groceries?" and I said, "I sure did. Here's the receipt." He looked doubtful, said a few more words to the woman and continued on. Another woman stopped and yelled "for shame! Stealing!!" pointing at her and wagging her finger. It is just an indication that people, and much of society, are unable or unwilling to think about how a human gets to this place.
And that was my rambling story. I haven't shopped at Pine Centre Save-On since that event and definitely sticking to that after reading about the two young girls taken down at the same store in May. Shoplifting and theft are just a symptom of long-term complex issues in society, ones where we cannot seem to get it together to start tackling. I hope sharing my story provides something for people to think about and perhaps encourage them to look beyond the shell of a situation to the deeper problems. And make a deliberate decision to act.
Where to start.
Fires: HY to Trudy Klassen. And HY to you too, Andrew, and your colleagues, for some reporting on the fires. It does seem odd when you highlight it. There were concerns when the encampment at the RD was levelled, that people didn't feel safe going to Moccasin Flats because of the higher level of crime and violence. The tiny homes weren't built before that. Could the fires be playing out what people had feared? If individuals are being targetted, it's unlikely they'll report it to police.
Shoplifting and handcuffs: Back in the day (and yes, this is after the Young Offenders Act kicked in), kids were still as likely to be handcuffed as adults if they were caught breaking the law. If you break the law, there should be consequences. Yes, I also agree that those consequences should account for the why, in appropriate circumstances. But I think we get into very dangerous territory if we, say, let all 12 year olds get a pass. 12 today is a lot different than 12 was 40 years ago. (OMG I'm old.)
Which leads me to: That "oh" graffiti makes me sad. Do it on a canvas. Paint on a mural. Put some wood up as a temporary wall. Today graffiti on city property, tomorrow Stonehenge. :(
Huge awesome news about the urban reserve land!! I think it's fabulous that the request was made in the first place, and that the city is on side.
A p.s. about the consequences and the handcuffs: I've been schooled by my (young adult) child and not above admitting when my first impressions go too far. Context is key. She pointed out that for a child who isn't evading or being aggressive or in any way resisting, handcuffs are way out of line. And yeah, she's right.